Blending Cultures through Food, Music and Dance as a Sikh man: An Interview with Jeevanjot Singh Kapur
Meeting individuals who live their lives with authenticity, joy, and deep contemplation is truly a beautiful experience. Recently, I had the privilege of connecting with one of these people, and he goes by the name Jeevanjot Singh Kapur, or JJ Kapur.
JJ Kapur is a storyteller and multicultural Sikh man living in Iowa. Our conversation delved into his rich cultural and religious experiences and how they informed his perception of masculinity. I hope you enjoy this interview as much as I did.
This interview was edited for length and clarity.
SURAJ: Hi JJ! I’m thrilled to interview you today. I started The Multicultural Man to learn about culturally diverse stories on masculinity, and I would love to hear a little bit about the identities that are important to you.
JJ: Great question! I come from a tri-national background. I have a Singaporean father, Indian mother, and me, a first generation American. Part of that means I grew up with a ton of different food on the table every week. My father would cook something from his South East Asian heritage. He’s ethnically Indian and ethnically Sikh, but grew up in a country where he would cook Thai Tom Yum soup or Hokkein Mee, which is a type of Singapore Chinese noodle. Or, he would cook a curry puff, which is a Malaysian Indian snack.
SURAJ: I love the variety of cuisine you were introduced to by your father.
JJ: My mom would also cook a lot of traditionally Indian foods like Dal. My mom would cook Italian, or buy pizza. Food to me is something that is really rare and special.
SURAJ: That is amazing. What was it like growing up as a first generation American?
JJ: I grew up between spaces and between times. I almost felt out of place because I definitely wasn’t brown enough, having not known my native language of Punjabi until recently when I learned in college. I also wasn’t white enough. In every yearbook picture from Kindergarten until 12th grade, one thing always stayed the same--I was always surrounded by my white peers.
SURAJ: I understand that feeling of living between spaces. I’m curious to hear about growing up between times. What did you mean by that?
JJ: The music I grew up listening to, which was from the 1960s and 70s, was different than what my friends were listening to and what was popular on the radio. I struggled not finding my place for a long time.
SURAJ: I find it interesting that your go-to music was from the 60s. Who introduced you to this type of music?
JJ: My father. Having grown up in Singapore, which was a British colony, my father, who was born in the 1960s, was exposed to the American and British invasion of music. I grew up with two musical streams at home. One was Bollywood music that my mom would play. The other was Burt Bacharach, the Beatles, the Beach Boys, and the Bee Gees. Both my mother and father introduced me to different music.
SURAJ: I love that you can point to food and music as two tangible forms of culture that you were exposed to, but also two cultures that you were straddling. It speaks to you living between spaces.
JJ: You know, how I dealt with it was code switching. Someone just asked me about this today. They said for them, code switching is exhausting. For me, it’s not. They asked me why. I said because I don’t know that I’m doing it.
SURAJ: Oh, that’s fascinating.
JJ: I first became aware of my code switching by my friends at Stanford. I hopped in an Uber and the Uber driver would be from a different country. My friends would say, “JJ, why are you talking to the Uber driver in an Indian accent?” I would say, “What do you mean?” It’s like when someone says you are snoring and you say, “I don’t believe you, record me!”
SURAJ: That’s hilarious! It is interesting how second-nature it is for first generation Americans to take on a different voice depending on who you are talking to.
JJ: Yeah, I began to realize that. Without knowing it, I was changing my accent. To be honest, it was distressing to me because my intention wasn’t to appropriate or even make someone feel I was dumbing down English for them to understand what I was saying. That of course was the impact that my friends felt.
SURAJ: This is a challenging struggle to articulate.
JJ: It actually became such an issue that it came up in therapy. I’ve had only white therapists; all of whom have been awesome. I remember sharing this with my therapist and they questioned whether it has something to do with my desire, but struggle to embody an authentic version of myself. I am this chameleon; I blend into different environments.
SURAJ: I resonate with this.
JJ: It wasn’t until I met one of my mentors. Her name is Valerie Kaur. She is a phenomenal activist and was a Stanford grad. I met her in California and told her about this phenomenon of code switching and she said, “what if this is actually a strength?” In some ways, in the eyes of my therapists and friends, this was a weakness. So, I asked her why and she said “your muscle of adaptation has been so stretched in your life that you are able to adapt and accommodate to different environments with ease. Your goal is actually to make yourself legible to different types of people. Maybe that is your superpower.”
SURAJ: Wow, that is incredible. It demonstrates how we can interpret a challenge in our lives as a strength or skill.
JJ: Since then, I stopped trying to censor my code switching, which ironically was more tiring than code switching itself. Now, I’m giving myself more grace and love to embrace the moments I code switch than to censor it, hide it, or suppress it.
SURAJ: The concept of code switching as first-generation Americans is intriguing to me. I wonder how it will change over time. When there is more cultural mixing and cultural awareness, what will code switching look like, or will it be necessary? It makes me wonder if it will cease to exist generations from now.
JJ: I’m curious about that too. Maybe even in our lifetime.
SURAJ: Maybe. So, what aspects of your culture or religious identity play a role in your understanding of masculinity?
JJ: To start off, all ten of the Sikh Gurus were men. The 10th Guru, Guru Gobind Singh Ji was a warrior. He established the Sikh faith by establishing the Khalsa. In other words, he created a physical identity for Sikhs where Sikhs kept the Five Ks. One is Kesh, which is our long, uncut hair. An unspoken aspect of Kesh is ultimately what crowns our unshorn hair: our turban. The intention of the turban was twofold: to disrupt India's hierarchical caste system -- mostly wealthy Indians could dawn themselves with turbans -- and second, to make it easier for other SIkhs to find each other on the battlefield. In other words, the turban was sort of this beacon of light. It embodies hope and joy and everything that makes me proud to be Sikh. There are Sikh women I know that keep a beard and maintain more masculine aspects of the Sikh faith. Balpreet Kaur is a great example.
SURAJ: Would you say that the Gurus taught you about masculinity?
JJ: In the stories I was told, Guru Gobind Singh Ji was known to not show emotion. He experienced a lot of grief in his life. I imagine because his four children were martyred, two were martyred in battle. His father was beheaded. In some ways, his family was his soldiers, many of whom were killed in battle. But, he was really known to be above it all.
SURAJ: Can you say more?
JJ: Valerie Kaur talks about Chardi Kala, the rising of spirits and eternal optimism in the face of hardship. That would be the beautiful part of the story for Guru Gobind Singh Ji, but also I think there is this hypermasculinity that is woven into the story as Sikh warriors, especially for Sikh boys. In the face of hardship, the story we turn to is Guru Gobind Singh Ji’s. So, there have been many instances in my childhood where I would be crying or upset about something, I’d be reminded a story of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. It would help me deal with that hardship, but not by learning what my emotions were but understanding that negative emotions get in the way of Chardi Kala.
SURAJ: How do you reconcile having negative emotions, but wanting to maintain Chardi Kala?
JJ: I’m realizing now that understanding negative emotions like fear or sadness or anger… I don’t think Guru Gobind Singh Ji was suppressing these very real emotions. I think he was in touch with those emotions, so that he was able to deal with the grief in healthy and productive ways. I don’t know Guru Gobind Singh Ji, I suppose this. None of this was taught to me, so I’m discovering it for the first time.
SURAJ: Is it important for you to find examples of healthy emotional expression within the leaders of the Sikh faith?
JJ: Yes, as sort of a lighthouse. We have a prayer room upstairs and every evening our family does a prayer. It’s kind of a beautiful, multicultural thing where my dad would encourage me to talk to God in English. Sometimes when I had a bad day at school, I remember looking at Guru Gobind Singh Ji’s picture. This really beautiful picture of him with his beard and he has this battle regalia. He looks very strong and it would get me through those tough times. In many ways, I turned to my faith in times when I was dealing with grief.
SURAJ: Thank you for sharing that. You mentioned earlier that you now have started to utilize therapy to help you as well. Can you share more on that?
JJ: Yes! It was highly controversial in my family, in my community, and in the Sikh community. I can honestly say I’ve heard many times from my family that they think it’s a waste of time. Part of it is there is this difference between technical and adaptive solutions. The technical solution of “you’re sad and grieving”, so let’s turn to these examples of Gurus. This isn’t bad in and of itself. But, some of the grief that I experienced… it’s complicated and it requires more adaptive solutions. So, I see therapy as a really wonderful one.
SURAJ: How has therapy helped you?
JJ: Therapy has been a way for me to practice emotional regulation that I didn’t get practice with growing up. I realized that has been something I wasn’t taught through my faith. Furthermore, that has been a tool in my toolbox that allows me to identify what I need. One of the things I’m learning right now in therapy is that emotions are not instructions, but they are information. Often, that information is a need. So, in a situation which I am really sad, sometimes what I need is to be alone. I’m an only child. I grew up with a lot of solitude and I need some space to feel things on my own. What my faith demonstrated is emotion as instructions. If we’re sad, the instruction there is ‘don’t cry. It’s a sign of weakness.’ So, it almost stops us or turns us to story. So, in the story of Guru Gobind Singh Ji, he doesn’t delve into what is the information contained in this emotion. That is where the world of psychotherapy has benefited me. It supplements what I learned in my faith.
SURAJ: I like how you have framed it. In a way, therapy has improved your understanding of religion. One point that I want to circle back to is the Five Ks. You mentioned Kesh, your long, uncut hair. I am curious what role hair has played in your understanding of masculinity.
JJ: It’s such a great question. I grew up with the longest hair. All through elementary school, I don’t think there was any girl that came close to how long my hair was. It touched my hip, and at some point, my knees. My hair was growing faster than I was! But, you know what it did for me? It taught me that we all contain elements of masculinity and femininity from a young age. My long hair is simply a part of who I am. It’s a part of my identity because of the Sikh faith. If anything, it’s a gift from God.
SURAJ: I love that! Having long hair seems to have provided you with a different perspective.
JJ: In some ways, I had this connection with other girls in my grade over hair. We talked about our hair products, like what shampoos and conditioners you use, how to comb it, all the pains that come from detangling and how painful that is, and how often we wash our hair. This is a conversation that none of the boys could have. In some ways, I viewed it as an exclusiveness that I had. I understand an aspect of the girls’ world that the boys don’t understand.
SURAJ: Oh, I see. It helped you empathize with the girls in your class over this commonality. How did your parents talk to you about your hair?
JJ: My mom used to say, “JJ, your hair is so beautiful.” She used to say that and it made me realize that I am beautiful. She was the first person that called me beautiful. As a boy, growing up, I later learned that was rare for my friends who were boys.
SURAJ: Wow. I love that your mom said that. Also, I’m jealous that you learned proper hair care from a young age. I never received those tips and to this day, I am still learning what to do and not to do.
JJ: You know, the other thing that I’ll add is about body hair. I remember through the phases of dating apps, I started to write ‘pro body hair’ or ‘body hair aficionado’. I forgot how I worded it, but I wanted to signal for women to not need to conform to be more ‘feminine’ or to Western standards of beauty. That’s part of my faith, where women are encouraged to keep body hair along with men. Because again, hair is a gift from God. I thought it was nice to voice this in dating preferences and I realized how rare that was among my other friends.
SURAJ: What was it like, for you, to value body hair in a society that typically does not?
JJ: Oh, my! I’ll tell you one thing. My beard was a huge red flag for a lot of folks on dating apps. I learned a lot of women don’t like beards. I think it’s familiarity and what is familiar is attractive. It was hard in the dating sphere. I had this big turban and I had this big beard. Dating apps rely on unconscious bias. I mean, we’re swiping every 1.5 seconds. I felt hurt to the point where I wrote on my dating app, “I am more than my turban and beard. If you’d like to swipe, I’ll tell you more about who I am” or something like that. Maybe I even wrote, “I have a beard, I have a turban, and old white ladies are scared of me.” I think that was funny way to point out the elephant in the room, but also say, “hey, I have a beard, I have a turban, but it’s not all of who I am.” With dating apps being so visual, it can feel that way.
SURAJ: Absolutely. While our religious and cultural identities are important to us and play a large role in who we are, they are only a piece of our complex identities. I love that you were able to bring humor into your dating profile to show people that humor and expression are a part of your personality.
JJ: You know, I don’t know where this comes from but I’ve always felt like this girly guy. When I meet people, they’ll often ask how many siblings I have. They’ll ask if I have a sister. I’ll say, “that’s sweet of you to ask, but I’m an only child” and they’ll say, “Oh, I just assumed because you are more feminine.”
SURAJ: How did you take it when people would say that to you?
JJ: I have come to this point in my life where I stand out among the Sikh men that I know. I am very emotionally expressive in the way that I talk and the way that I approach the world. I don’t subscribe to the cultural norms for Punjabi men. This is outside of my faith and more of my culture. Gosh, watch any Punjabi music video and you’ll see it. It’s these men, with tons of women surrounded by them who are in a big tractor. It’s a very rural. There is a lot of alcohol in these videos. Expensive cars. To me, it indicates that a Punjabi man has a lot of wealth, a lot of status, has women in their possession as objects. I never really vibed with the music because of how gender was portrayed in the Punjabi music industry.
SURAJ: You mentioned earlier how different types of music played a large role in your cultural identity formation, so I find it fascinating how Punjabi music doesn’t appeal to you. I totally understand why. I have seen the videos and have also noted the signaling of traditionally masculine norms within them.
JJ: I think it comes back to growing up with the Beatles and Bollywood, which I’d say is different than Punjabi music. Not having a typical Punjabi dad to indoctrinate me with the culture and music and movies…I would view that as a boon.
SURAJ: What was it like to have a dad that didn’t follow the traditional Punjabi cultural norms?
JJ: It was a gift. One example was when my dad was very open with me about putting my hair down. In some ways, it was contradictory to the faith where we are supposed to cover our hair underneath a turban. My father, in his lens of interfaith awareness, would encourage me to show my long hair and the feminine side of who I was. He said, “JJ, this part of who you are is awesome.” He didn’t say it directly, but he made me understand that this aspect of myself wasn’t something I needed to hide. It’s actually something that is beautiful. It goes back to what my mom said, “there’s this beautiful side of you, why hide it?”
SURAJ: It seems like a unique approach to raising a Sikh child. How did this compare to your Sikh peers?
JJ: I have a lot of Sikh friends who never had the same childhood. They didn’t show their hair. Many of them cut their hair as a response to bullying from the post-9-11 time, which I have no problem with, it’s a personal choice. My father’s and mother’s choices were quite the opposite. They were like, “let’s not cut his hair to blend in and not experience bullying or harassment, either because he looks too girly in school or because he will be made fun of by his peers for appearing more like a terrorist.” Their response was, “go to the talent show and put your hair down!” What they taught me was this vulnerability, which is counter-cultural to this hyper masculine Sikh or Punjabi culture that is in movies and music. They raised me with this sense of emotional vulnerability of expressing who I was and the vulnerability to reveal the feminine parts of myself.
SURAJ: I’m curious about your thoughts on expressing femininity. Traditionally, masculinity has honored traits like stoicism. Stoicism isn’t inherently wrong or negative. However, it becomes dangerous for people who are suppressing their emotions, personality, and more in the name of traditional masculinity. It ultimately leads to living an inauthentic life.
JJ: A great example of my rejection of stoicism…At Gurdwara, there is this act of service routine called seva where the Chaur Sahib, something that we use to keep dust off of the Guru, Guru Granth Sahib Ji. We wave it over the holy scriptures to keep dust off and to respect this sacred text as our king. As our living and breathing Guru. I love doing this because I’ve always been a performer. You have to stand in front of the whole congregation. There’s one person reading, the Holy Scriptures are sitting there, and you were the one in front of everybody. There would always be music. The tabla, the drums, the harmonium, the singing. The entire scripture is written in musical verse. I’d be dancing around, moving my hands. My parents would think, “oh, there goes JJ again, dancing in front of everyone.” That role is always a really stoic guy, one that doesn’t smile and is meditative and contemplative. But, for me, I feel the music. I can’t hide it.
SURAJ: I love that you were able to bring your personality into this role! Dance makes life more interesting.
JJ: I love to dance. I can’t not not dance. Whenever there is music, I have to dance. It’s embarrassing. It’s like an elevator with background music in a restaurant and my superpower is knowing the song in the background music, so I’ll be dancing. In Indian parties, my favorite thing to do is dance all my American moves to Indian music. I do the shuffle or the SpongeBob or the Dougie, and then I’ll throw in some Bhangra moves too. For me, it’s another form of language.
SURAJ: It also seems that dance is integral to culture, particularly Punjabi culture.
JJ: Extremely! I really love social dancing. It’s something I did in college, and that’s actually a type of dance I haven’t been able to reintegrate with her in Iowa. I’d love to.
SURAJ: I hope you find an opportunity to do so! Speaking of Iowa, do you mind sharing what you do for work?
JJ: I am a storyteller. I work with an organization called CultureAll. It’s a non-profit. The goal of CultureAll is to help Iowans value the cultures of their neighborhoods. I am focused on bridging the urban and rural divide in Iowa because many rural communities are becoming extremely diverse. The demographics are changing faster than the mindsets. I am using storytelling to catalyze bridge building across differences, using storytelling to lower the activation energy needed to learn about each other to connect with each other. Rather than relying on these relationships to be built spontaneously. Stories are difficult to politicize. Stories are personal. Stories address universal themes.
SURAJ: I love that you are proactively bringing people together to learn about one another through storytelling. Can you share more about how the storytelling works?
JJ: One of my projects is called Open Book. It’s building a human library across Iowa. People are books and you can check out a book and hear a chapter from someone’s life of a different cultural background. We define culture so broadly from sexual identity, religion, nationality, etc.
SURAJ: Do you take people across the state when a book is checked out?
JJ: I’m now working on digital storytelling because Iowa is a really big state. There is a lot of driving across the state, which gets tiring. It is not sustainable. Digital storytelling offers a more inclusive and accessible platform for Iowans to get to know one another.
SURAJ: That’s amazing. How has this work impacted you?
JJ: Iowa is home. This is the state I was born in. I didn’t choose it. I feel like I’m choosing it now for the first time moving back after college to live here, to serve here. I feel committed to this place that I call home. I see how beautiful it is. I see how much I have learned from the village of Iowans I grew up with. I feel a strong desire to make this place that I call home better. And, this is the first time in my life that I feel Iowa isn’t just happening to me.
SURAJ: That is beautiful. I am so happy to have met you. I resonate with so many of the experiences you shared. Thank you for being so open to share your experiences with me.
JJ: Absolutely. Totally kindred spirits. Thank you so much for inviting me.